He was making $10 a post from Adidas on Instagram in 2013. Today, Bill Rom and his partner Josh are running a bootstrapped apparel brand doing $220 million this year — and projecting up to $400 million next year. Bill breaks down the exact financial wake-up call that let them scale aggressively, why they still do 10-15% of their own screen printing at $200M+ in revenue, and how they became a genuine culture moment (mascots, memes, and Aiden Ross wearing their shorts included).

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Inside the episode:

• The fractional CFO hire in 2022 that revealed they were making just $60 in profit on every first purchase — and why that clarity changed how aggressively they'd spend
• How their average new-customer value climbed past $400 in the first 12 months, and why that number justified riskier channel bets
• The in-person activation playbook (spin-to-win wheels, velocity challenges) they started back in 2016 that Bill calls Gen Z's biggest unfair advantage today
• Why Baseball Lifestyle 101 now outsells Nike and Adidas per square foot at Dick's Sporting Goods, and how that pushed them into a $600K/month YouTube and linear TV strategy
• The "asymmetrical bet" rule Bill uses to decide when it's smart to lose money for 60 days in exchange for a 10x return in 90
• How building relationships with creators like Eric Sim (rather than paying for one-off deals) landed them a shoe collab with Adidas

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Sponsored by OMG Commerce - go to https://www.omgcommerce.com/contact and request your FREE strategy session today!

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Chapters:

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[00:00] Intro — Brett Curry sets up the live NYC interview with Bill Rom of Baseball Lifestyle 101

[02:16] Meet Bill Rom — $220M this year, $340–400M projected next year across D2C and wholesale

[02:40] The breakout moment — From Instagram media account to apparel brand; the College World Series fire marshal story

[04:53] Knowing your numbers — The fractional CFO, $60 first-purchase profit, and scaling from $5M to $220M+

[06:51] Beyond first-purchase math — Cohort analysis, LTV climbing past $400, and running your own race

[10:29] What they got right early — Building an email list, posting hourly for five years, and in-person activations

[14:59] Sponsor break — OMG Commerce

[16:08] Why YouTube is the future — Evergreen content vs. TikTok, 80K subscribers, and YouTube as the #1 streaming service

[19:46] Going big on commercials, CTV & linear — Working with Jacques and the "spend 10x your creative cost" rule

[21:33] Investing in culture & creators — Jackson Olson, Eric Sim, King Ajuko, and building content muscle in-house

[25:11] The Adidas collab — How it happened and why they won't let top creators go to Nike or Adidas

[27:26] Asymmetrical risk for asymmetrical returns — "Lose money for 60 days to 10X in 90" and wrap-up

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Connect With Brett: 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thebrettcurry/ 
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQmbMwBW8LYDfFAqNqlgTGw
Website: https://www.omgcommerce.com/
Request a Free Strategy Session: https://www.omgcommerce.com/contact

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Relevant Links:

• Bill’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bill-rom-54653744/ 

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Past guests on eCommerce Evolution include Ezra Firestone, Steve Chou, Drew Sanocki, Jacques Spitzer, Jeremy Horowitz, Ryan Moran, Sean Frank, Andrew Youderian, Ryan McKenzie, Joseph Wilkins, Cody Wittick, Miki Agrawal, Justin Brooke, Nish Samantray, Kurt Elster, John Parkes, Chris Mercer, Rabah Rahil, Bear Handlon, JC Hite, Frederick Vallaeys, Preston Rutherford, Anthony Mink, Bill D'Allessandro, Stephane Colleu, Jeff Oxford, Bryan Porter and more

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Transcript: 

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Brett Curry (00:11):

Hey, Brett Curry here. Welcome to another edition of the eCommerce Evolution Podcast. Today's episode is special. This is an interview done at one of our recent YouTube events at the Google offices in New York City. This interview is actually done by my buddy, Jacques Spitzer from Raindrop. We do these events together, and he's interviewing a friend and a client, Bill Rom from Baseball Lifestyle 101. Now, anytime you have a chance to learn from Bill Rom, you take it. That's at a live event, if that's on a podcast, doesn't matter. You've got to listen to Bill. They'll do $220 million this year, projected to do close to $400 million next year. They're in Dick's Sporting Goods, Academy Sports, a bunch of other retail. In fact, some retail stores, they sell more per square foot than Nike. And my buddy Jacqu Spitzer believes, and I do too, they will become one of the next billion dollar apparel brands.

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(01:15):

It's just a matter of time. Now, what do Jacques and Bill talk about on this podcast? Well, they talk about several things, kind of the foundational story, how do Baseball Lifestyle come to be? What are the unit economics behind this that make this whole thing work? How have they built community and how do they get people to buy again and again some of Baseball Lifestyle's products? And if you don't know, if you've ever been to a baseball game or if you've been around boys in the age of five to call it 14, you've probably seen some ice cream shorts or some other shorts or some BL 101 backpacks. I see their apparel everywhere I go. And so Bill also talks about YouTube growth, how they're looking at YouTube and YouTube creative and connected TV, but this is really about marketing and marketing growth. And so I think this interview is just amazing.

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(02:10):

You're going to learn a ton. It's going to be a lot of fun. So please enjoy this interview with Bill Ram and Jacques Spitzer.

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Jacques Spitzer (02:16):

It means a lot that you're here with us today, Bill, and can't wait for you to drop some knowledge bombs.

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Bill Rom (02:21):

Very excited to be here. And yeah, we'll do about $220 million this year in sales across a lot of distribution. Next year, anywhere between 340 and 400 million, depends on wholesale expansion, some things there. So really excited to talk to everybody, answer questions. Jacques's been a part of my journey, so excited to

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Jacques Spitzer (02:40):

Talk. Bill, let's chat this because it's easy to flash to this moment because it's an incredible moment the brand's going through, but what was the moment where things really broke out for you guys? Because it was not like, hey, you turn this whole thing on and it just went or maybe it did have the potential to just go, but as the brand was going, when were you like, oh, this is really starting to take off?

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Bill Rom (03:11):

So I think we're bootstrapped and this was the first go for us. My business partner, Josh, is still only 29. And I say that because we started Baseball Lifestyle as a clothing and apparel company 10 years ago. 2016 was when we first started to sell clothes. Before that we were an Instagram account. So we started as media and selling ad space. And again, if you have ever liked, commented and subscribed, we might've invented that back in 2013 and Adidas was paying us $10 for a post. And you start seeing companies like that and you're like, okay, why are they doing that? Let's try to sell some clothes. We've gotten to the point that we're making $5,000 for a single post. What do we think that is? So we launched our website into 2016. 2017, no ads, no anything. Melissa, our first employee, our CMO today, Josh, my partner, they were the only people really working on the brand every day.

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(04:11):

We did about 880K just through the organic Instagram. So the following year, 2018, we went to an event, the College World Series, so be where your people are. And we got shut down by the fire marshal three or four times because we had too many people in our space. And I pulled Josh aside and I was like, "Do you want to be an influencer or do you want to be a brand? Because we kind of got to make a choice here because I think that there's an opportunity." So we did that and then we were growing nice every year. We were growing 30 to 50% every year and we never had cash. If you're running a brand and you're like, "Why am I getting bigger and I never have money?" Everybody goes through it. So in my past life, I was a strength conditioning coach and I- I did

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Jacques Spitzer (04:53):

Not know that.

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Bill Rom (04:53):

Yeah, trained professional athletes, New York Jets tight end, Jeremy Ruckert, trained him since he's 13. I decided to pivot careers. It's working out for me. But we hired a fractional CFO in 2022 and he ran through our numbers. He had been the CFO at Shynasty. They're about 50, $60 million company. And he looked at our numbers, he's like, "You guys are making $60 in profit on every first purchase, on every first purchase." And he's like, "Spend." So he built us the whole financial model. We had clarity, we had confidence for the first time. During that 2020 COVID, we were a smaller business, didn't know. We didn't want to kill ourselves by overextending, so you don't do too much. Supply chain got ruined. We actually opened up our own screen printing business. We still to this day do about 10 to 15% of our own screen printing on 200 million plus dollars in revenue.

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(05:48):

And then 2021 iOS 14.5, you're blind. I don't want to spend money. I don't know where to go. And there's just so much when you don't know as a founder and it's your first go. And financial literacy is so important. And once we recognized that we had that, that November we did 550K in the month of November for us and it's like, okay, we can open the door. Then we did $5 million the next year, five to 35, 35 to 135, 135 to 220 plus, and then next year 340 to 400. And yeah, I realized it was big when we became a meme. And if you've ever heard of Mason 6.7, if you have kids, if you know what six seven is, you're welcome. The mascot for Alabama football team was wearing our shorts. Aiden Ross, big influencer. He was fighting and rolling around with Khabib wearing our shorts and it's like, oh, okay.

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(06:46):

Yeah,

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Jacques Spitzer (06:47):

You're part of culture at that point.

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Bill Rom (06:48):

Yeah, bigger than just a brand and it was crazy.

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Jacques Spitzer (06:51):

Yeah. So look, I want to, I guess, double stamp a couple things you said there. One is understanding your own math. It is the number one thing that I see holding people back because there's so many different ways to look at a business and to look at. I guess it's much easier when it's absolutely first purchase profitable, but sometimes Grooms was not first purchase profitable. Dr. Squatch was very early on, but then they realized, oh, we could grow way faster if we are willing to not make money on the first purchase, but know that over the course of a year we're definitely going to make money on a new customer. And so those are obviously more consumable goods. I want you to talk a little bit about how, because you don't have a consumable good, and I already know the answer, so maybe lead in the witness, but how did you understand beyond the first purchase how much a cohort of people were worth to the brand?

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(08:02):

How did you start seeing beyond even just the first purchase and what was that transition like?

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Bill Rom (08:09):

Yeah, so in the process of building out even the financial model as we were looking at it back in 2022, part of that was also building a more robust cohort analysis and recognizing what are our people doing over time. So the other side of it was we were spending $46 to acquire a customer. They were having $100 average order value and we're like, "Okay, so you're making close to 60 bucks here, spend." But then when we looked at it, it's also first year they were worth $220. And so now it's like, okay, now you're playing a different math game in general. And what we started to look at was how do you bring them back? Where are you going there? Today, our cohorts from July of last year to July this year, every new customer who purchased last year is now worth $400 for us in our first 12 months.

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(08:55):

So that now, once we hit a mark, usually there's about a little bit of a relaxed period, but then it becomes the normalization. By the end of this year, every cohort that we acquired it from July of last year through December will be worth over $400 per new customer. It's

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Jacques Spitzer (09:09):

Incredible.

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Bill Rom (09:09):

And understanding that math gives you a more robust ability to be aggressive with channel choices, leaning into creators, buying different products, trying different products, doing different things. So again, financial literacy matters. It can be boring, but knowing your numbers, because I think that's the very big key. There are famous people who talk. I have nothing to sell anybody, but there are big people who talk and it's like you're not telling everybody that you got $20 million in funding to spend on ads.

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Brett Curry (09:39):

You're

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Bill Rom (09:39):

Not telling everybody that, yes, you don't have any credit card debt, but your manufacturer lets you float 12 months without paying them anything. Those are really happening to some brands that are out there that everybody knows and loves, and you got to run your race. It's important to have conversations with people who are doing it so that you can understand what your math looks like and you can get a comparison. The one that helped me was Nick Shackelford and them a couple years ago when they were talking about Breeze, their drink company, and they were putting publicly, here are the numbers. And me and Josh, my partner, were looking at each other and we're like, we're beating the shit out of them and everybody's telling me that they're doing great, so we're not pushing hard enough. I think some of that is also good to keep you in check, but yeah, run your own race is super key.

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Jacques Spitzer (10:29):

So specific to YouTube, because you guys are very active, you mentioned, I mean you started essentially as a media company, you guys put out a lot of incredible organic content on your channel. I'm going to ask this in two parts. The first part being, what are things that you did when the brand was, we'll say between the 10 and $50 million range that you're really glad you invested in and did with the team? And maybe what are some things that if you could go back in time at that point, what would you wish you might've known that you know now? So this is a two-part question. What are you glad you did and what do you wish that maybe you would've known on hindsight?

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Bill Rom (11:13):

I'm going to go in reverse order of how you asked it. Hey,

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Jacques Spitzer (11:17):

You're the boss.

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Bill Rom (11:18):

So one, there's a lot of luck in every game, and I think that what most people don't want to talk about is how much luck is there. The challenge is what people think is lucky is usually not the actual luck. And I think that we've been lucky that I think we did every single thing in the year 2015, 2016. We did every single thing that a company in 2026 would need to do to be successful. So when I think about what we did, I told everybody, because again, my past life, I was strength and conditioning coach. I was on a board of people for muscle and fitness. I'm fat now, but I wasn't then. And I worked with professional athletes, all this stuff. I spoke at other conferences, and one of the things, this guy, Pat Rigsby, he owns a company teaching people how to grow gyms.

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(12:15):

If you've heard of Alex Hormozi, he took all of Pat's stuff and turned it into something else. But Pat was like, grow an email list because you own your email list. So every strength ignitioning coach was like, build an email list, send a weekly newsletter, get into that. So I wrote for websites, bodybuilding.com, all these things, built an email list, and I would hit the email list every week and I would get a new client from that parent, another kid, they'd forward it to somebody, and I made it every week. So when we were in 2015, before we ever did anything, Melissa and Josh, when we got products from companies, we wouldn't keep them. Josh was still playing baseball. He's 15, 16 years old at the time, and we were giving him away and saying, "Hey, like, comments, subscribe, join our mailing list." And I said, "Instagram might disappear one day, but your mailing list will be with you forever." And we were doing that 11 years ago.

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(13:07):

So I can't tell everybody start an email list as fast as you possibly can, but the best time to do it is today. Same thing. I said to Josh when he had 5,000 followers on the account, he wanted to sell clothes. I said, "Not the time. Let's just build an audience, post." Josh, to his credit, one of the things he has is more resilient than everybody else. He posted every hour on the hour from noon to midnight for five consecutive years every single day, never missed. But then you get to the point that we now have two million plus subscribers, cross socials. We have all these different things. The time to start building your social profile is today. Posting content is today. So we posted content, we leaned into content very early. Content was part of what we did. A mailing list was part of what we did.

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(13:51):

In-person activations in community, we've been doing that stuff since 2016, 2017. We were setting up tents. We were doing spin to win wheels where you could get stuff. We were doing how hard can you throw velocity challenges. We were doing all of that stuff in 2016, 2017. Today, I tell you all, do as many in-person activations as you possibly can. If you don't know what Fanatics Fest is, Fanatics Fest, Target just sponsored it because they want to get more into sports. Dick's Sporting Goods puts a huge activation into it. Fanatics pays tons of money for people like Speed and Logan Paul and Jake Paul and all these influencers to come out and do activations so people can do it with them. And for Gen Z, activations is the number one thing that they go to now. It's not sporting events, it's not concerts, it's activations like Fanatics Fest.

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(14:40):

And Alpha is going to follow a similar suit, probably even more so, because they're going to be the group that wants to reject AI. They're going to want to lean into a life that's real, and they're not going to be one who's going to be excited by a fake one. So we've been doing a lot of that, and I think those are the things that help us today feel like we have an unfair advantage.

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Brett Curry (14:59):

Hey, thanks again for tuning in. This episode's brought to you by OMG Commerce. That's my agency. Hey, we're specialists at creating omnichannel growth for brands profitably. Now, the greatest brands we know are no longer just D2C. Yes, they're masters of D2C, but they're also growing and scaling on marketplaces and in retail stores. And we understand the complexities of how to grow in all of those channels from a campaign strategy, a creative strategy, and a measurement strategy. In fact, we recently won a Google Agency Excellence Award for helping Arctic Coolers grow their retail sales in Walmart using YouTube. We've helped add almost eight figures in growth on Amazon for brands, and we've even helped a brand go from nine to 10 figures. And so we want to help you grow. So if you're not satisfied with your growth in any of those channels or you're looking to unlock new growth, we should probably chat.

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(15:58):

Visit us at omgcommerce.com, click that let's talk button. We love to schedule a strategy session with you. With that, back to the show.

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Jacques Spitzer (16:08):

So I know you all specifically, you mentioned you make a lot of creative, you guys also have a very active organic YouTube channel. As you have now, I mean, the brand is going through a really big moment where you have been almost primarily direct to consumer for years, and then the last year started also not only getting into retail, I know you launched a couple retail locations. How has it changed the way that you and your team look at and measure specifically YouTube? Since we're here at Google and YouTube, there's so many different ways to look at it. I know you also have started investing a little bit into television. How have you all started to change the way that you think about and budget for and prioritize that channel?

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Bill Rom (17:05):

So as time went on in our social media journey and where we've gotten to, a few years ago, one of the biggest initiatives, I think it was 2024, we were trying to say, okay, where's next? What's the thing? And you look at, again, Mr. Beast and you look at people who are building streaming audiences and things like that, like Kai Sanat and other people, and long form content, things that didn't disappear. TikTok was going through its moment and was having this great success, and everybody was very excited from 2018 until probably last year. Now it's still big, but it's different big. We looked at YouTube and we were like, YouTube never dies. The content you make will have a permanent shelf life. You put a link in it and it goes viral in a year, two years, three years, four years, it could go viral every year.

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(17:52):

I have a piece of content that we made four years ago. It goes viral every April. Every April it starts to print new subscribers for us. So my team's effort also just doesn't get wasted, and there's a lot of effort you put in to make a really cracked out TikTok and it disappears in 18 minutes. And it's like you had a viral post that no one remembers, but on YouTube, they give you the opportunity to repeat and get more bats with the same piece of content over and over and over again. So we looked at that and that's been a big thing. I think we're about 80,000 subscribers to our YouTube channel now. We do a bunch of different things. We've tried a lot of different stuff, but as we've gotten into the retailers, I'm in Dick's Sporting Goods. Again, I was just talking in the back with Ezra and a few people, and right now per square foot, Baseball Lifestyle sells more per square foot than Nike and Adidas at Dick' Sporting Goods.

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Jacques Spitzer (18:48):

Let's go.

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Bill Rom (18:50):

I'm not

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Jacques Spitzer (18:51):

Hyping you up. I'm like, let's go.

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Bill Rom (18:53):

So when I look at that, one, it's cool to be a trend and I've got way less square feet than them. But the reality is that one person's margin and opportunity is another person's business. So I have to start thinking about how am I protecting my brand and how am I staying at the bleeding edge of things? So YouTube for me is the future, and it has been since 2024. And since 2024, I'm pretty sure the stat they tell us every year, the number one streaming service in the world is YouTube. So it's not Netflix, it's not Amazon Prime, it's not Apple TV, it's YouTube. So if you're not on YouTube, you're missing on massive exposure. I think there's also a bunch of different stats. I'm not a Google plant, I promise you guys. I do believe in the platform a lot. There's a wild amount of people who are not on social media who are on YouTube, and they do not have social, but they watch YouTube every day.

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(19:46):

And I'm sure the team over from Google can give that stat somewhere. It's like 30% or something like that of people who are across platform are not on anything but YouTube. So that just gives a huge advantage. And then it's what game do I not know how to play and who do I remember from a YouTube ad? I go, okay, Dollar Shave Club, and I go, Dr. Squatch. I go, all right, who did Dr. Squatch? It was Jacques. Okay, so let me tweet at Jacques a bunch and see if I can get information out of him and do stuff. And Jacques is now doing three commercials for us this year. We've expanded into linear. This month I'm going to spend about $600,000 on linear and connected TV, and that is only going to grow. But two years ago, I think we first started to talk and I just wasn't ready.

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(20:35):

And what I realized was, again, Sean Frank from Ridge had said, "Whatever you spend on a creative, you have to be willing to spend 10 times that spent like a rough idea." And it's not a holy grail, it doesn't mean exactly that, but if I was going to spend six figures on a commercial and do it right, I had to be willing to spend seven figures and add spend behind that singular idea. And when I looked at it, I didn't have the distribution where I felt I could take one thing and go all the way, but the only place I really felt like I could do it and I could do it the way that we've done the rest of our scale was YouTube. It had the ability for me to have TV. It had me YouTube proper. I could get other distribution. I could understand the metrics, the numbers, and the things, and it felt like the gateway drug for figuring out linear, which is an entire other monster.

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Jacques Spitzer (21:21):

Yeah. And I'll add to that. I want to make sure we leave a couple minutes for questions, but - I'm

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Bill Rom (21:28):

Staying for the Q&A later, so if you - Oh,

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Jacques Spitzer (21:30):

That's right. That's right. I'm the

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Bill Rom (21:32):

Only one staying.

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Jacques Spitzer (21:33):

Thank the Lord. All right. Hell, all right, all right. Okay. Well, I know we'll have plenty of questions, but I feel like you all are incredible advertisers, and you in particular, you have an advertising mind. And so not only are you getting in these channels, but you're also really starting to lean into people who have influence in that space. The ad that we're just coming out with has King of Juko, Eric Sim, and then we have - That's it. Okay. All right. And then we have your friend Jackson - Olsen.

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Brett Curry (22:14):

Olson

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Jacques Spitzer (22:14):

From. You knew him, I think maybe before he was. You helped him become a Savannah Banana, and he's going to be on the upcoming Dancing with the Stars. He'll be part of the Q4 campaign. So you're not just investing in content, you're investing in culture and in connection. What does that look like? I mean, I just feel like you made a decision that this was going to be your moment, we'll say probably about this time last year. What was the cascading? What gave you the confidence? Was it retail expansion? What was the thing where you're like, "You know what? We're going to do these partnerships. We're going to go bigger. We're going to invest in these channels. We're going to start looking at new metrics beyond ROAS, things like brand awareness." What gave you the confidence to finally start doing those things?

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Bill Rom (23:15):

Yeah, so I think we talked about a little bit, I think distribution was part of it. Being an advertiser, being a marketer, knowing that I needed to know where I was going to run these ads was one. Two, we felt, again, as a company that wasn't an influencer for all intents and purposes, and we are natural creators, everybody on our team has made some piece of content. I'm even the main piece in a million view video that we have on YouTube. We've all made content and Jackson Olson, his first ever brand deal before anybody knew him as a Savannah Banana, he was doing content with us and we were doing different - He's

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Jacques Spitzer (23:51):

Your Michael Jordan.

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Bill Rom (23:52):

For sure, for sure. In a lot of ways. King Ajuko, he has a million subscribers on his YouTube, almost two million on his TikTok. These guys in the past would've naturally just been doing stuff with us, and we were getting away with never paying influencers for forever because we were just making content with them, and our audience was bigger than all the influencers. Even today, 90% of influencers in our space have a smaller social following than us. We will get over a billion organic views this year. So I don't need the influencers, but what they allow me to do is I needed to start storytelling to different people. I couldn't just keep telling the same story that I'd gotten good at telling. I needed to open up and I needed to expand that I was telling slivers of a story to different places. And King Ajuko hits a more teen audience.

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(24:41):

Jackson, the millennial mom thinks he's cute. Kids want to be him when they grow up. He's fun, he's interesting, he's got all these different things. And that opened that door. And then why we needed to go to bigger commercials and stuff like that is, yeah, I had to think about Dick's Sporting Goods. I have to think about major retailers, people, but we're doing a collaboration right now. We're going to have cleats and sneakers and a bunch of stuff with Adidas. So Adidas baseball. Yeah. Do

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Jacques Spitzer (25:11):

You mind me asking about that? I actually saw that. I saw that either online. I saw that online and I hadn't even had a chance to ask you, how the heck does that happen?

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Bill Rom (25:21):

Adidas reached out, said, "We need your help, and that's crazy." We were like, "If you let us make a shoe, we will do stuff with you." And they were like, "Cool, you can have a shoe." Wow.

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Brett Curry (25:34):

And

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Bill Rom (25:34):

Yeah, for us, again, we want to reach into the teen market, but again, how we make content, going back to everything else, the best way to get actual great relationship with influencers, if you want the sneakiest trick to not spend as money on an influencer campaign, is actually build guts internally that you guys know how to make content because they can see that you're real and that you speak the lingo. When I show up and Eric Sim, me and him, he's a big personality and so am I. I'm being more professional on stage than I am in normal life. And he and I are having fun and making fun of each other and being in a dugout. Our team recorded it, made a behind the scenes video that we put out, and it's fun. He is in Slack groups with us and talking and laughing and knows me, and I know his daughter, and our CMO, Melissa, she knew when his wife's birthday was, sent her a birthday cake because he was away and she was like, "Hey, I'm going to send a birthday cake and flowers and all these things." We generate these real relationships with these people, but we make content with them, and then it really just doesn't.

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(26:41):

It's not as expensive, but we wanted to plant the flag that as we're a bigger company, I can't let an Eric Sim with his million subscribers and his million on TikTok and his personality and his culture and what he does, I can't let it go to Nike. I can't let it go to Adidas because I know they felt me steal from them over the last couple of years, and I know that they're now investing a lot more money in the space. So it's about making some of these reasonable bets. And Adidas Collab in general, it is the fact that we have him as an athlete, they have him for some on-field stuff. There was crossover, there was good community involvement, and there was more for us to do, but it's a growing thing. It's a growing process. You're always looking for the next fun thing, exciting thing.

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(27:26):

I like asymmetrical returns. That's counter to what the world had been for the longest time. It was you spend a dollar, you got to know that you made three back or you're in trouble. We're now to the point where I'm like, "I'm okay to lose money for 60 days because I'm going to 10X in 90." I think that as you start to look at stuff, you have to know that if you are on good footing and you know your numbers and your metrics, where are the moments that you can take that asymmetrical risk to create asymmetrical return and win bigger? Otherwise, it's pain by numbers and you're all going to get to the same place, and that's a tough place to keep fighting every day.

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Jacques Spitzer (28:01):

That's a perfect place to wrap up this individual session, but there'll be a chance to ask questions later. Can we get a round of applause for Bill for bringing all the knowledge? Thank you, Bill.

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Brett Curry (28:12):

Thank you. Thank

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Jacques Spitzer (28:13):

You, thank you. Thank you.

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Brett Curry (28:14):

That'll do it for this week's episode. Hey, if you're serious about profitable scale for your brand, we would love to chat. Over the last 15 years, we'll work with some amazing brands like Native, Boom Beauty, Arctic, Organify, Crumble Cookie, True Earth, and many, many more. We want to help you unlock new channels, find profitable scale, have better creative, better campaign, better measurement strategies, and ultimately hope you have more fun and grow in all of your relevant channels. So take a look at omgcommerce.com and we can't wait to help you scale profitably.

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