Andrew Eckblad is one of the sharpest video minds I know. He started in TV and film and even won a few Emmys. He was Frank Kerns’ “video guy” for over 10 years. Now he runs convertsmart and works with DTC brands making videos that convert on all platforms: Facebook, IG, YouTube, and TikTok.
In this episode, we focus on the 8 biggest mistakes he sees DTC brands making when it comes to video marketing.
Here’s a quick look at what we cover:
- How the pattern interrupt really needs to do more than interrupt - it also needs to frame the video.
- What the real goal of the first 5-10 seconds should be.
- How you need to lean into authenticity and what that looks like.
- What the ideal length of a video is after millions of dollars of testing.
- A simple yet HUGE recommendation for your CTAs (I’ve been guilty of making this mistake).
- How you might be overthinking your video strategy.
- Plus more!
Mentioned in This Episode:
Andrew Eckblad
- eMail: Andrew@ConvertViews.com
“Tested Advertising Methods” by John Caples and Fred E. Hahn
Transcript:
Brett:
Well, hello and welcome to another edition of the eCommerce Evolution Podcast. I'm your host, Brett Curry, CEO of OMG commerce. Today, you've got a treat because this is a guest coming back for round two. Not many guests get to come back on the show a second time. You only do that if you really crush that first episode, and this guy did.
Brett:
Are you a D2C brand spending over six figures a month on paid media? If so, then listen up. My agency, OMG commerce and I, have worked with some of the top eCommerce brands over the years, including Boom, Native, Groove, Monin, Organifi and dozens more. Every year we audit hundreds of Google, YouTube, and Amazon ad accounts, and we always find either significant opportunities for growth, or wasted ad spend to cut, or both. For example, are you missing YouTube ads? Whatever you're spending on top of funnel Facebook, you should be able to spend 30% to 50% of that or more on YouTube, with similar returns. So if you're spending 300,000 to 400,000 a month on Facebook, you should be able to easily spend a 100,000 to 150,000 or more on YouTube. Visit omgcommerce.com to request a free strategy session, or visit our resource page and get some of our free guides loaded with some of our best strategies for YouTube ads, Google shopping, Amazon DSP, and more. Check it all out at omgcommerce.com.
Brett:
Andrew Eckblad is with me again. He's one of the smartest video marketing guys that I know, runs an agency, has a rich background in video, and just as a fascinating guy to talk to. We're going to talk about eight mistakes to avoid when creating your video ads. It's going to be super fun, high energy, very helpful, and so with that, let's dive right in. Andrew, how you doing man? Welcome to the show and thanks for coming on.
Andrew:
Yeah, thanks for having me back. I love it. I got some good response from the last time I was on.
Brett:
Nice. It was a good episode.
Andrew:
I'm back in. I'll do it. You don't take too many people back a second time. Is that true?
Brett:
Well, I just don't know if people don't want to come back.
Andrew:
Oh, okay.
Brett:
It could be more me. Maybe they're bored with the show.
Andrew:
Yeah.
Brett:
We've had some guests that have been back for sure, but it is not a huge list.
Andrew:
All right, all right.
Brett:
You're still part of an elite club, so you got to feel good about it.
Andrew:
Excellent. That's all I cared about.
Brett:
Now speaking of elite clubs, for those that are watching the video, if you've got really good eyesight, you can probably see behind Andrew's head the sign of... I'm counting six trophies, and then another one that I just now saw because you moved more.
Andrew:
Oh, yeah. It's a Telly.
Brett:
It's a what?
Andrew:
Telly.
Brett:
A Telly, okay.
Andrew:
Those are easy to get. Those don't...
Brett:
Okay, so forget about the Telly.
Andrew:
Yeah.
Brett:
The other ones, I was like, Andrew, those look like Emmys, and guess what? They are. So tell us a story about these Emmys. How'd you get them?
Andrew:
So early two thousands, I worked more in television and film and we did a series in New York that was like a fashion documentary series. It followed the whole like photo shoot process from conception casting shoot to print. It was like a limited run. We did like, I think it was five or six episodes and yeah, so those are regional image. They're not the big national ones you see on TV, but they're regional ones and yeah, it was really fun getting to
Brett:
It's still pretty cool. When you first told me regional Emmy, I really wondered you're based in San Diego. I wondered was this, was this work with Ron burgundy or, or what was this?
Andrew:
Yeah, I tried. I tried to, but I couldn't get in with him.
Brett:
He's pretty tough to work with, and so it's probably good that didn't work out.
Andrew:
Yeah.
Brett:
That's awesome, man. So we've got these eight mistakes we're going to dive into, really excited about that. But before we do, kind of give your background, because not only have you been winning Emmys and stuff, but you've been doing some other cool things as well. Give us the background here.
Andrew:
Yeah, I'll give you the 30 second background. I initially was very interested in TV and film. That's what I worked in, in the early 2000s. I decided that I actually wanted to make money at some point, so I hooked up with Frank Kern, who's a pretty well known marketer. Started working with him in 2008. Helped him with his video. We came up with a lot of video techniques together that kind of combined direct response marketing, and entertainment, and the structure of television, so we'd do kind of entertaining stuff, and ... back then.
Brett:
I remember some of those videos. I still remember one where Frank Kern was driving in a VW van, and there was this internet marketing sneak attack, or something that he did.
Andrew:
Yeah.
Brett:
I still remember those videos, and those were really, really old.
Andrew:
They were so fun to shoot.
Brett:
I was coming up in the game and learning as well.
Andrew:
Yeah. There wasn't a lot of video online back then. It was harder to post things. YouTube wasn't what it was. Facebook wasn't what it was. But, he would have huge lists, and so these videos would go out to hundreds of thousands of people, and then they'd get traction, and he would be able to sell his products. But through him, I learned a lot about video marketing and direct response marketing, especially, and I've been able to take those skills, combined it with my skills as a video guy, and kind of apply that not only to advertising, but also to VSLs and those sort of things for different companies.
Andrew:
I have my own agency called Convert Views, which is just the creative for video ads for Facebook, Google, stuff like that. Then I also had content for a company called Genesis Digital, who my late friend, Andy Jenkins started. I still work with them on all their content and everything. That's Kartra, WebinarJam, and EverWebinar are their products. But yeah, so I kind of have my foot in all areas of video online, but a lot of video marketing stuff
Brett:
Love it. So such a rich background. Love Frank Kern's stuff from back in the day, and what Andy Jenkins and crew built, phenomenal. I know you're carrying the torch there, doing some really cool things. You and I then collaborated on a pretty large D2C automotive brand, did some video work together, which was super fun. So, I know you're doing a lot of e-comm stuff now. So, et's dive in. Let's dive into these eight mistakes. Number one, go.
Andrew:
Okay. Number one is I think everyone understands that a video has to capture attention. If you don't know that, then know that you have to do something to capture attention on the front of a video, so some sort of pattern interrupt. But, lot of people don't do the correct pattern to interrupt. A friend of mine called it a light show, so fireworks or explosions might get attention, but it's not going to compel someone to continue to watch the video, so that's a big mistake. What you're trying to do is you're trying to, in the beginning, frame the video, create a true hook, and give them a reason to watch right off the bat.
Andrew:
I'm already jumping ahead, but that's going to lead into our number two, which is going to be a reason why having a hook. But the point is, that pattern interrupt should be a real quick introduction to why they should watch in a creative way. An example of this, I just did a video. It's a script. It's not shot yet, but the front end... The company was selling a battery back up, and it was supposed to be going against gas generators. The very start of the video was, are gas generators really the best solution for an emergency situation? Visually, it was pulling back from a gas generator, and it had a box next to it. The idea was that you're questioning what everyone thinks is the best solution. You're providing curiosity because there's something there that people want to see what the answer is, and you're framing the video in a way that could carry someone to the next part. I might have kind of butchered that explanation because it's a new video, but that's kind of an example of how to start a video the correct way.
Brett:
Yeah. I love this. It's not that hard to get someone's attention, or to get someone's attention in the wrong way.
Andrew:
Right.
Brett:
You can yell something obnoxious. You can be crazy, whatever.
Andrew:
You can throw a ball at the screen and it can make someone jump.
Brett:
Right. Start a fire, do something crazy, and that will certainly get attention, but a proper pattern interrupt should also frame the message. It should frame-
Andrew:
That's right.
Brett:
... you're about to sell. I've talked a lot... I'm a YouTube guy, so I talk a lot about the Harmon Brothers videos, but it's real easy to see what they're doing and their pattern interrupts frame the video. You got the pre-video with the girl in the red dress sitting in a public toilet. She talks about a mother load she just dropped. It's kind of shocking and whatever, but it sets the stage for this before you go spray called Poo-Pourri. Then similar to what you're talking about with a gas generator in that video for a specific audience, you got the box, that's kind of a little bit of curiosity. You're posing a question that's going to make someone think. So, yeah. Pattern interrupt is super important. You need to interrupt someone. That's what you're doing with the video. They didn't come to YouTube to watch your video. They didn't go to Facebook to watch your video ad there either, so you got to interrupt them, but you have to frame them at the same time.
Andrew:
Yes.
Brett:
Talk about that a little bit. That first five to 10 seconds, and this is mistake number two. What should we be doing with those five to 10 seconds?
Andrew:
We should be giving them a very specific reason to watch the video. This could be done in a lot of different ways. It could be done with curiosity. You could pose a question, you can state an objection, you could establish a problem and a need. A lot of that goes back to fundamental copywriting. I think good copywriting, and people who do video marketing should probably study copywriting for scripting and stuff, because a lot of it carries over.
Brett:
100%.
Andrew:
Yeah. You're really kind of setting up the reason why someone wants to invest their time into the video. Out of all the stuff we're talking about, that's probably one of the most important things. I actually think this is more true on YouTube than it is on a place like Facebook, just because the nature of the audience, and the nature of the format, and people's expectations when they're going through YouTube, where their mind's at.
Brett:
Totally agree. Yeah. People are on YouTube to learn, to do, to buy, to be entertained.
Andrew:
Research. Yeah.
Brett:
I'll just kind of mindlessly scrolling through Facebook, which is fine, and then sometimes something quick and easy can kind of can do get the job done on Facebook.
Andrew:
Yeah. I think a side note, it's important to understand that there is a difference between those two platforms. A lot of times something that works really well on one won't necessarily work well on the other. Sometimes it's just about tweaking a few things to make that work better.
Brett:
Totally agree. We've really only had a few advertisers, the automotive brand that we collaborated on, Boom by Cindy Joseph is another, a few others where the same video hits on YouTube and hits on Facebook, but typically, Facebook is shorter, YouTube is a little longer, all things is being equal. But, sometimes what works on Facebook could be a good hook for YouTube, or what works on Facebook could be the product demo portion of a YouTube video, things like that. But yeah, the platforms are different for sure.
Brett:
I want to key in a little more on this concept because I think it's really powerful, that you want to give some kind of promise in the first five to 10 seconds that it's going to be worth my time to watch this video.
Andrew:
Yes.
Brett:
Right. I remember I'd been a student of marketing for a long time. I've read some of the marketing godfathers, like David Ogilvy, Ogilvy on Advertising, and John Caples, Tested Advertising Methods, and several others. I don't remember who first said this, but they posed the question: What's the goal of a headline? You think about a print ad or whatever. What's the goal of the headline? Well, the goal of the headline is to get someone to buy. The goal headline is to get someone interested in buying. The answer to that is, no. The goal of the headline is to get someone to read the next sentence. The goal of the headline is to stop them and get them to engage with the ad. The whole purpose of the ad is to get them to take action, but the goal of the headline is to get them to keep reading.
Andrew:
Yes.
Brett:
That's goal of a good video as well is promise something where they realize, my life may be better if I watch this video. They may still be skeptical, but really, all you're asking for is a maybe. Maybe if I watch this, I'll get something out of it.
Andrew:
Yes.
Brett:
Any other insights there? Any other good examples there? I know it's kind of hard to think of them on the spot, but any other thoughts there?
Andrew:
No. I mean, you definitely covered it really well. I know why you're the host because you say things so much better than I can.
Brett:
It only feels that way.
Andrew:
You're expanding on it in a way that's like, "Oh, that makes a lot of sense." I'm just like, blah. But no, I think it's really just having a filter like, do I care? I will say this. The wrong way to start a video is with a satellite statement, something that people already know. So saying, "Everybody knows tap water's bad for you," and then trying to get into like a reason why they care. That's a terrible way to do it. And also assuming that people care about what you have to say is also terrible. The people watching aren't your friends and aren't your family. They don't care, so you really have to have that filter when you're creating this open. It's like, "Do I care? Does someone else care? Why is someone going to invest their time, even if it's just 30 seconds, 45 seconds a minute to watch what I have to say?" That really has to be hit in the first five to 10 seconds.
Brett:
Yeah. I love that. Don't don't make statements like, "Yeah, tap water's bad for you," or, "You're a business owner. You're trying to cut expenses." Well, of course.
Andrew:
Or introducing yourself. "Hi, I'm Andrew Eckblad. I like to make videos." It's like, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip. No one cares.
Brett:
I love seeing that stuff on the internet and you do too.
Andrew:
Yeah.
Brett:
It's one of those things where introducing yourself is fine, getting your name there is fine, but that's not what you lead with.
Andrew:
That's not an open.
Brett:
It's not an open. Maybe for something like radio where it's harder for people to change their channel. Well, it's really not that hard, but yeah. For online video, you're right. People are pretty ruthless. Even nice people, even people that be super patient with you face-to-face are ruthless online.
Andrew:
It's worse than it used to be. Every year, the attention span gets lower. You used to be able to do anything and make money, but-
Brett:
Right, right.
Andrew:
... not with ads.
Brett:
Because they're so novel like, "Whoa, there's a video ad online. This is crazy. I've never seen this."
Andrew:
Yeah. "I need to watch it." But yeah, it's this cutthroat, so you really got to be direct.
Brett:
Yeah. You've got to either have some promise of a benefit, some promise of the answer to a question so you're opening that loop with the promise of closing it, something to get them interested to get them to keep watching. So, cool.
Andrew:
That's right.
Brett:
Any other examples or thoughts on that one before we move to number three?
Andrew:
Nope. That's all I got.
Brett:
Cool. All right. Mistake number three. What do you got?
Andrew:
Let's talk about length, video length. Listen, when I first started doing online stuff, I thought length was really important because the fact is the more time a video goes, the more people are dropping off and not watching.
Brett:
Right.
Andrew:
But the reality is through millions of dollars of testing, that length doesn't matter. We have successful videos that are 10 minutes. We have successful videos that are three minutes, even 60 seconds. Even, ironically, some of the longer videos tend to do better, like in the five to six minute range. But of course, that falls back to the product and the audience. There's a lot of variables. From what I've seen, length doesn't really affect how well a video does. You could probably speak to this better than I can since you actually do the media buys and stuff. What have you seen on this?
Brett:
This is such a fascinating question. It's also one of those questions that's one of the most frequently asked. I speak at events a lot talking about YouTube, and people are like, "Hey, how long should my YouTube video ad be?" I think, just because it's an easy question to ask. I think the way that I would frame it is there's no magic length. Right?
Andrew:
Right.
Brett:
It's not that length doesn't matter. It's just that it depends. There's no magic formula, right? One of the videos you and I collaborated on back in the day, I think one of the top hitters was 45 seconds, but for the most part, as we've tested, and now we've spent millions, and millions, and millions on YouTube, is that usually needs to be longer than 60 seconds. If you go less than 60 seconds, especially in the 30 second range, you just don't get conversions. You'll get views. You'll get better view rates. Your cost per view will go down with a shorter video, but you don't get the CPAs you're looking for. Right?
Andrew:
Right.
Brett:
You and I were talking about this. Google reps and other people will say, "Hey, no. 15 seconds test..." 15 seconds. "Six second bumper."
Andrew:
Six seconds, yeah.
Brett:
We did that so many... In fact, you and I worked on some six second bumpers, could never bet them to work. Generally, I like to say minute or longer, but like Ezra, Boom by Cindy Joseph, he's in that same ballpark that you talked. Five and a half minutes are some of his top videos, but then we have several others that are a minute and a half or so that are just crushing it. So yeah, we found more in the minute and a half to three and a half minute range as a rule, but I wouldn't be afraid at all, of going a little bit longer, and I wouldn't be afraid of going closer to that one minute either, as long as you say enough. Say enough to really push someone to where they want to click.
Andrew:
Yeah. I think the one caveat to that, which I've just thought of ,is on Facebook, we've done like sale videos with badges, like 60% off, and it's showing off someone with a really expensive jacket, or a sheet. Something that has a really high AOV with just a quick sale notice, those tend to do okay. Those are the only short ones I've ever had success with, but when you're actually demonstrating something, or selling a product, or doing something a little more in depth, the short stuff, like you said, it doesn't really matter how long it is. It's the message. It's as long as it needs to be, and that's it.
Brett:
Yeah, exactly. As long as it needs to be, keep their interests, say enough when they feel like they have to click, and then you're good. I think if someone has a frame of reference, like they know your product, they know your brand, they know what you're selling, then yeah, do... If it's a sales, something like Men's Warehouse or something, people that are customers of Men's Warehouse, they know what they have. If I saw a thing that was 50% off or whatever, and I was looking to buy a jacket or a shirt, then it wouldn't take much to get my attention. But, if it's a new product where I don't really know why I would want it, or what it does, or why it's great, then you need more time.
Andrew:
Yeah.
Brett:
Love that. It's awesome. Video length, getting hung up on video length, is a mistake for sure.
Andrew:
Yes.
Brett:
Awesome. So, that was mistake number three. What about mistake number four?
Andrew:
Okay. So number four is build for the small screen. That's something as an editor, I forget because I work on a desktop. Whether you're doing graphics or video, you're seeing it on a big screen. You're able to feel the nuances and everything. But when it comes to people consuming video ads, whether it's Facebook or YouTube, I mean the huge, vast majority is on a small screen. You probably know the numbers better than I do.
Brett:
Yeah. But I mean, depending on the product it's 60%, 70% higher. That's even on the low end. Even like for Boom, by Cindy Joseph, where we're targeting women 55+, it's still mostly mobile, which is crazy. Another one is 90%-
Andrew:
I think Facebook's like 85% or something, or higher now. Then you have TikTok and all that stuff, and Instagram. It's remembering that people can't see everything on a phone, like they can on a desktop. What does that affect? Primarily, it affects titles and graphics. You don't want small titles. You don't want small graphics. If you do titles, make them big, fill the screen, keep them simple, very visually consumable, one or two lines. That's definitely one thing.
Andrew:
Another thing is for YouTube, is understanding the safe zones on YouTube. The bottom right, you have the skip button. The bottom left, you have a clickable CTA. Is that correct?
Brett:
That's correct.
Andrew:
Then the top right, you have a link to the actual advertiser, right?
Brett:
Correct.
Andrew:
Then my understanding is that YouTube, depending on the platform it's showing, it may crop slightly, on certain areas. If you were to look at this on a screen, you have a little section in the middle that's uninterrupted, and maybe a little on the top left, but other than that, you want to keep the edges clear. Either large graphics, large texts, or just don't do graphics and texts at all.
Brett:
Yeah. You really want to keep that, especially that lower right, where the skip ad button is, because it is more of a region. You want to put some kind of call to action button there and get someone skipping the ad, and then doing the opposite of what you want, but also the lower left there's that built in CTA that Google has, or even the play button. You can be in those zones. Top, middle can be okay for logos or things like that. But yeah, for sure that upper right corner, you want to kind of avoid that as well. Understanding the safe zones, super important.
Brett:
It's so funny. In the past it was always like, "Hey, let's optimize for the big screen, and let's think about the big screen." Aspiring actors wanted to be on the big screen, and now, we're doing everything for a small screen. But that's where most of your views are going to come from, and so that's where most of your clicks and conversion are going to come from as well. I also love the tight framing, maybe not to the extreme of TikTok videos where it's right on someone's face, but still, tighter frame makes a big difference. Especially someone watching on their phone and they see it in landscape mode at the top, a tight frame is important.
Andrew:
Yeah. You don't want to be tiny in there. You want the product. If you're presenting it, then you want to fill the screen. On top of that, you want it to be bright and easy to see. You don't want to be in a dark room with weird shadows or all that stuff, because the harder it is for someone to watch something, the less effective it's going to be.
Brett:
Yep.
Andrew:
So, simple, bright, you don't have to over-complicate it.
Brett:
Exactly. The more someone feels like they have to work to understand what you're saying, they're just going to give up. Right? They-
Andrew:
Yeah. What do they say?
Brett:
If there's too many things going on, they're not going to work hard for you.
Andrew:
A confused mind never buys.
Brett:
Yes, love that. A confused mind never buys. Really, we're lazy when it comes to ads. We don't want to exert effort for your advertising.
Andrew:
Don't want to dissect it. We just want to know, and either click or not.
Brett:
Yep. Awesome. So we're about midway through. I'm going to kind of recap real quick, and then we'll get onto number five. So number one, we want a pattern interrupt. We want a pattern interrupt that properly frames the product, the problem, the situation, what we're trying to do. You want to frame it and interrupt people properly. Interrupt the right people in the right way. Two, we want the first five to 10 seconds to really provide a promise, so there's going to be a benefit for just watching the ad. Get them to want to around, and make that appealing and enticing. Number three, don't get hung up on the length of the video. It needs to be long enough to sell. You don't have to get too hung up on it. Build for the small screen is number four. What is number five?
Andrew:
Okay. Number five is taking advantage of authenticity, or at least trying to use authenticity as a way to get people to engage with the video. There's a lot of nuances to this because you could do something like these really bigger six-figure expensive ads obviously are produced. They're acted, but they're very well done and they're very successful, but you're not going to make 30 of these videos and continuously rotate through them. You're going to have hero videos. When you're looking at cheap, effective videos that could be produced quickly, that are successful, that have a lot of return on investment, then I think using authenticity is a great way to take advantage of that.
Andrew:
The best example would be a UGC, a user generated content video, where someone's giving their opinion or their review, or someone's holding their phone up, shooting themselves, and they're being like, "Oh, I just got this great outfit. I love it." They're looking at themselves in the mirror, and they're showing it off. Because it's in the same format that people use to communicate with each other anyway, especially like on Facebook, people are going to at least give it a shot, as opposed to something that looks very polished, like an ad that I immediately identify as an ad, so I immediately skip it. I think taking advantage of the format's native language, I guess is a way to put it, is a powerful way to easily and simply create videos that can be effective.
Brett:
Yeah. It's so great. I talked to a friend of mine who runs an agency that focuses on TikTok and they like to say for TikTok, don't make ads, make TikToks.
Andrew:
Yeah. I love that.
Brett:
That's super clear and makes a lot of sense for TikTok, but it really applies to every platform. Understand the Facebook platform. Understand what looks and feels authentic there. Understand YouTube. YouTube, you can get away with a little more polish and a little more production value. It skews a little more TV than these other platforms, but still, you want authenticity. If it just feels like a commercial, looks like, feels like commercial, people are just going to keep going on, on Facebook. If it looks like a commercial on YouTube, well, people know that it is anyway, but if it doesn't grab you and if it's not authentic, then they're going to skip it there, too. I love this. I also like for YouTube, but also for Facebook and other places, a mixture of some production value with UGC. Sometimes those working together can be really valuable.
Andrew:
Yep. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's knowing the language of the platform, and being okay with speaking that language with your advertising.
Brett:
Yeah.
Andrew:
Especially on something like Instagram. People are scrolling, and if it looks like something that their friend shot, then they're going to give it a chance and listen.
Brett:
Yes.
Andrew:
Especially if it has an interesting open or something. If it's a really high polished ad with a bunch of graphics, they don't stop. There's no reason to.
Brett:
Totally makes sense. We've been living conditioned that that's the salesperson selling me something. No, thanks.
Andrew:
That's right. That's right. Of course, every platform is different, so you really got to look at different platforms, but that's kind of a good... For low budget ads, that's kind of a good thing to remember.
Brett:
Love it. Yeah. Lean into authenticity, and lean into UGC. And I think that applies across all platforms.
Andrew:
Yes. Absolutely.
Brett:
All right. Number six.
Andrew:
Number six. You're going to know more about this than me, but it's advertising the right product. What I mean by that is having a product that has the AOV to support the advertising. Something that I've found in video marketing is it's really hard to make money off something that's less than $65, $70 average order value. It's having a product that could pay for the ads, but it's having a good upsell path, the right landing page, the optimized landing page. Having all the backend stuff there to support the advertising, I think is something that a lot of people forget.
Brett:
Yeah. I'm so glad you mentioned this because as media guy and someone who's been buying and creating campaigns for forever, this speaks to my soul. So thanks, Andrew. But yeah, you really do need that AOV to be often $65, $75 or higher. Or another way to look at it is you need to be able to absorb a customer acquisition cost of $50 or higher. Really, now on most platforms, a cost per acquisition of $50 is probably low, especially for cold traffic. If it's warm traffic, remarketing, repeat purchase, then you can certainly spend less than $50. But probably as a rule of thumb, if you can't spend $50 to $100 acquiring a new customer, you're going to be limited on some of your channels for attracting customers. Now it could be then that your AOV is north of $100, or it could just mean that we know what our six month LTV is. We know how many times we get someone to purchase for six months, and then you could absorb that $50 higher customer acquisition cost. Understanding that is really important.
Brett:
Then one of the other pieces here, and I'll mention our mutual friend, Jared Mitchell, that's how you and I met.
Andrew:
Yes, my best friend.
Brett:
He's your best friend, and he's a good-
Andrew:
Yes, the best man at my wedding.
Brett:
Yeah. That's next level, although he is going to host all 10 Curry's at his house for like the second or third year in a row. We go out to Cali and we crash at the Mitchell's.
Andrew:
I got to stop by for that.
Brett:
You do. You got to come and see the whole Curry clan at the Mitchell's.
Andrew:
I got to meet the family.
Brett:
It'll be crazy. Yeah.
Andrew:
Yeah.
Brett:
Jared and I were working on a YouTube deal for he and his wife's business, Skincare by Alana. We were working on a specific product. As we were running YouTube, we just did a small test, just kind of for fun. As we were doing a test... His wife, Alana is great on camera. Actually, you helped with this.
Andrew:
She is. Yeah.
Brett:
You did this.
Andrew:
Are these videos I shot?
Brett:
Yeah, these are the videos you shot.
Andrew:
Okay.
Brett:
We started running them and we're like, "Well, the CPAs aren't great, but the other video metrics are really good." The view rate was good. Click through rate was actually great. People were clicking on this ad.
Andrew:
Yeah.
Brett:
CPV, the cost per review, were low. As we looked at it, we were like, "Jared, these numbers are pretty good." People are enjoying watching these videos and enjoying clicking on them. He's like, "Well, let me get to work." You know what Jared has going for him. He knows CRO. He knows conversion rate optimization. He's a super smart guy.
Andrew:
He's great at that.
Brett:
He reworked the page, and then he got his funnel built out, and then they started working, and then they started hitting those numbers. That was never designed to be a scale project, but it did start to work. It did start to hit those CPA targets once he fixed the landing page and some of the follow up sequences. That's where also understanding the numbers, where you can look at the performance and say this is... As an example, if the view rate's really low for an ad, but let's say the click through rate's kind of high, we'll know you need to fix the opening. You fix the opening and the view rate's better. Or, view rate's good, click through rate's bad. Something's wrong with the product demo or with the CTA. You just have to look at the numbers and understand what to fix next.
Andrew:
Yes.
Brett:
Really good. So right product, understand your numbers, you're going to have the upsell system-
Andrew:
If someone says, "Oh, I got a $20 product, or $25 product," then start looking at bundles, start looking upsells.
Brett:
Exactly.
Andrew:
How can you bring that AOV up to where it makes sense?
Brett:
Right. Right. Yeah. I've consulted with some Amazon businesses where AOV is $25, and they don't really know when people purchase again. I'm like, "Well, that's probably more of a search marketing activity, running Amazon search ads, Google search ads, things like that, is probably your path there.
Andrew:
Yep.
Brett:
Cool. All right. We got just a little bit of time left. That was number six. Let's lay down number seven.
Andrew:
Number seven is a big one that people forget, and that's, don't throw away the CTA. What I mean by don't throw away the CTA is it's an opportunity to pitch to the viewer something specific. A lot of people have their video and then it comes to a title-
Brett:
I've been guilty of this one, by the way. Even as a video guy-
Andrew:
Me too.
Brett:
... that loves performance and loves direct response. I've made this mistake many times.
Andrew:
Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to just have a card that shows the product and say, "Click now, lower." You can still have that at the end. What you really want is someone on screen, and if it's a scripted video, then this is part of the script. But whoever is taking us through the video, the "host," they need to present the CTA at the end of the video directly to the viewer. That makes a big difference in how that CTA is actually consumed. Then of course, that CTA, that should have either a special offer, a deal, a promotion or some sort of bonus. It should be a strong offer presented by the person on camera. That can make a big difference in videos.
Brett:
Yeah. I love that. Such a simple thing, but sometimes we get right up to the close, people are... If they've been sticking with you that long, they're interested, they're engaged, they're likely a good prospect, but then you don't ask.
Andrew:
Yeah, you don't ask.
Brett:
You just leave it to a visual to ask. Have the person on camera make the ask. Go here, check this out, try this out, read this thing.
Andrew:
It's like going back to VSLs. In a VSL, you have the offer in the VSL. You should do the same in the ad.
Brett:
Yep. Just like back in the days when Frank Kern was pitching his stuff. He did the pitch. He did the close at the end. We've seen this work too, whether it's hair care, or skincare, or automotive, or whatever. This just works. The interesting thing is even if you do all the steps right and you get up to this point, if you don't ask, a lot of people won't take action. You got to ask, and you got to make it compelling.
Brett:
The thing I'll also point out here is I love introductory offers. We work a lot in the supplement space, so there's a case to be made that, do free plus shipping samples for supplements, or do some kind of introductory offer. If you're doing a subscription, make that month one bundle irresistible, and you can kind of work with price. But, you don't have to do that. You could just tell people to go here and check this out, see it in action, see how this will help you, run this calculator or get this guide. See how this is going to impact your life or your business. For Boom, by Cindy Joseph, almost never, ever, ever do discounts. It's always click here, check out our five makeup tips for older women. This promise of a benefit, and then they go and they get that benefit. We've been sending traffic to those pages for years and it just works, and it gets a predictable CPA. There needs to be a CTA. If it makes sense to bundle and discount for your brand, then do that. But if it doesn't, then don't. You don't have to.
Andrew:
Right. Right. You don't have to, but thinking about the CTA and incorporating it into part of the video can help. We've even done tests where we put countdown timers on it as if it's a page, and that has helped.
Brett:
Has that helped?
Andrew:
Not always, but we've seen... Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but you could do fun stuff like that at the end of the video. But more importantly, have a delivered CTA and just ask. It could be simple. Just tell them what to do next.
Brett:
Yep. Love it. Delivered CTA. Don't skip it. It seems simple. Seems like, "Yeah, do we really have to do that?" Yes, you should really do that.
Andrew:
Yeah.
Brett:
Awesome.
Andrew:
Okay. That was mistake number seven. Mistake number eight.
Andrew:
Mistake number eight. The last one is don't make it more difficult than it needs to be. Video is very intimidating for a lot of people. Luckily, it's easier now than it's ever been before, because we all have a phone and we could just shoot ourselves. Sometimes, that's all it needs to be. If you don't know what to do, create a script, get a phone, shoot yourself in a UGC style, shoot some B roll, throw some shots in, make sure there's value in the video, show off the product, demonstrate the product if it's demonstratable, and if it's a project... When we're working with a car care product, before and afters were awesome. Just showing a before and after from a cell phone footage is fantastic. I think if you're getting started in video, don't over complicate it. Don't make it more difficult than needs to be. You have the tools right now to create a compelling ad. You just have to structure it correctly and try it out.
Brett:
I love it. I'm so thankful you made this one of the mistakes, because we do have the tendency to over complicate things. That's one of the reasons why I don't like to mention that YouTube is kind of like TV, even though it is. When I mention that, then people think super bowl ads or something. I got to create this super creative-
Andrew:
I got to get a huge crew.
Brett:
You got to get a huge crew. This has to be a major production. It doesn't. I think one of the things to consider is if you're a business owner, think about the times, think about the phrases, think about what you say when you're one-on-one with someone when they light up, when you make this comment or you saw an automotive product and you show them this thing, when do people get all excited? When do they lean in, when do they really perk up? Those are the things you need to say in your ad. It can be super simple. I would much rather test with a simple video, one person on camera talking to someone, just like you would to a friend or to an ideal prospect, and give that a try first, and then try more complicated things from there.
Brett:
I remember, and I don't know if you've seen this or not, but Frank Kern, he had a video, I think I saw on Instagram first, but he started... It was just him with a microphone, staring at the camera. This was recent. He was like, "This was an ad."
Andrew:
Yeah, like classic Frank Kern.
Brett:
It was oddly captivating. Part of it... I haven't followed Frank Kern for a long time, but I don't think that was it. Part of it was just oddly captivating. I just watched it, but it was just Frank talking. Barely any edits, barely any anything. He just said, "This was an ad."
Andrew:
Well, that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about because Frank used to pay me to create videos. He needed a video guy to... You used to have to shoot on cameras, not your phone, so he needed a camera guy who could shoot, and who could edit, and who could do all this stuff. Then as time went on, him and a lot of other people realized that they have the tools to just create something, and there's authenticity with it. Him saying, "This is an ad," that's a great interrupt, even though it's...
Brett:
It's a great interrupt, and it really ties into your first point because it's a pattern interrupt, first of all. Why would you say that? That's interesting, so now I'm listening for a second, at least.
Andrew:
Yeah. Why are you admitting this?
Brett:
He's talking about marketing, and he's talking about how he's speaking to business owners, and so it is a beautiful, simple hook that works.
Andrew:
Yeah, and he self shot it, and whatever little edits he had to do on it, he did it. If it's clunky, it doesn't matter because you still watched it. It's a good example of just kind of where we're at with video, which is knowing the structure is half the battle.
Brett:
Yes. T.
Andrew:
He rest of it's testing and just getting it done.
Brett:
Totally agree. Yeah. Having that right script, understanding the nature of the platform you're running an ad on.
Andrew:
Yeah.
Brett:
Being simple, being straightforward, really mastering that hook and that pattern interrupt, and then dropping in some of your key benefits and some of the things that you know resonate with people. It can be simple. Then you're just testing and iterating from there.
Andrew:
That's right.
Brett:
Awesome. So we did hopefully demystify a little bit and make this seem a little simpler, but I'm a guy that understands video. I still like having video people to work with. I still like talking to the pros like you. I love working with you, Andrew. For other people that are watching this and thinking, "Okay, okay. So I could do this on my own, but I'd rather just call Andrew, or get a hold of Andrew." Call Andrew... What is it, the '90s? How can they check out your company and your services?
Andrew:
The company is convertviews.com. If you want to talk to me, you can always email me at Andrew@convertviews.com. Even though we gave you these tips, it's all super difficult, so you have to hire me to do everything. You can't do anything on your own. None of this makes sense. This was all just...
Brett:
It was just good radio. It was just to make an interesting video. No, the truth is you can do it.
Andrew:
I mean, you cannot do it on your own. You have to pay me tons of money to help you. That's the last point.
Brett:
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew:
No, I'm just kidding. But yeah, if you have a larger company that needs a lot of media... We don't really work with startups because it doesn't make sense for them to pay someone when they're so little and they're just testing, but if you're a company that needs consistent creative, we don't do the media buys, we just do the creative. We're not trying to replace your ad agency. We're not trying to replace internal people, but if you need just a steady flow of effective video ads, that's what we do.
Brett:
Yeah. Love it. If you're in that stage where you're needing 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12 videos a month, that's the type of client that's great for you.
Andrew:
Yes.
Brett:
One thing I'll say too about you, Andrew, and this probably came through in the interview, but you understand data and you understand performance. We used to get on calls. You look at videos and be like, "Hey, this view rate's not good. This conversion rate was off." Then you know kind of what to test from there. You're really looking at data driven creative, which is super helpful.
Andrew:
That's right. That's a very good point.
Brett:
Convertviews.com or andrew@convertviews.com. I'll link to those in the show notes as well. So Andrew, man, round two may have been better.
Andrew:
Do I get a round three? Do I get a round three?
Brett:
Let's start thinking. Let's start thinking about round three?
Andrew:
Have you had three rounds with anyone?
Brett:
I have. Yeah. One other business. Well, a couple... They're OMG people. I'm trying to think of anybody outside OMG that's been three times.
Andrew:
Yeah, OMG doesn't count.
Brett:
OMG doesn't count. Maybe Ezra. I think guys were Firestone. That's a pretty short list.
Andrew:
He's a different level than me, so that's okay.
Brett:
He's next level from all of us. So anyway, Andrew, man's been a ton of fun, and thanks for taking the time.
Andrew:
Yeah. Hopefully I'll see you when you visit Jared.
Brett:
Yes. Let's hook up next time we're in Cali. Let's absolutely do that. All right, brother.
Andrew:
It was great talking with you.
Brett:
You as well. And as always, thank you for tuning in. We would love to hear from you. What would you like to hear more of or less of on the show? If you haven't done it, leave us that review on iTunes. It helps other people discover the show. Don't forget to subscribe, and don't forget to check out my new podcast, Spicy Curry. You find it on the website or on iTunes. It is spicy. We just talk to the top names in eCommerce, so check that out as well. And with that, until next time, thank you for listening.
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